Episode 25 – Shell Game

Hello. In this episode, we take a look at the various deck “shells” and “packages” used in legacy decks, with a view to help with deckbuilding and sideboarding choices. We also uncover the secret best two delver shells currently in legacy…

Your hosts:
Stuart Pullin
Stuart Taylor

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Link to podcast file: https://legacybreakfast.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/podcast-25.mp3

5 Comments Add yours

  1. t says:

    The quality of this cast is garbage, or rubbish for you Brits. Mox Diamond over DRS? What are you smoking? Mana Leak is not even Legacy competitive, neither is Hornet queen. What good is SFM for Jitte against opponent’s True Name? At least finding a SoFI can allow you to attack pass True Name. You discussed Mox Diamond and Zuran Orb, but failed to mention Loam strategy. No one plays less than 4 Tops, if they want to run Tops, No one. Stop misleading people by pretending you play Legacy!

  2. April……. fools? :). Im sorry you didnt enjoy the podcast. But I stand by everything said. Mox diamond would be a fine alternative build to a deathrite shaman Junk(ish) deck. You would miss out on tempo plays such as T1 deathrite T2 Bomb, waste, but I think you make up for that in being able to make more bombs, earlier, as well as enabling loam better… Mana leak is a great alternative to counterspell in the decks that need it if you dont think that (for a example) a 3 colour manabase could support the double blue turn 2. And in a 3 card stoneforge package (with only 1 equipment), i’d definitely play the jitte. Seems more versatile, as not every deck plays True-Name. Also in answer to your question, a jitte would help race the Nemesis (by gaining life and swinging back if they attack, or equip to flyer–>pump as well as keeping other guys off the board). I would agree that Hornet Queen is a bit off the beaten track for legacy, but i’ve certainly played it and its won games where a progenetus wouldnt. But the point of bringing it up is to get different ideas for various packages, and I think that is the point of the podcast that I think you missed a little bit. To encourage deckbuilding and to use the modular nature of the packages to be able to experiment a bit more. I think to copy SCG lists rote is to be 4 months behind the meta…

    Loam is a bit harder to define as a shell or package… Unless the package is 4 loam 6 cycling lands? But that rarely sees play in a ‘package’ form (outside of aggro loam/lands). Its a good spot though, loam strategies would be a great episode for the future :).

    But I mean, at the end of the day, its fine to disagree with the things we say. One of our friends (Word up Ryan!) thought that counter-top is better expressed as a ‘shell’ of 4 balance / 4 top / x 1 drops / y 2 drops, etc…. because even though the package is so small, the rest of the deck has to be warped to the balance curve so its not great to just bring in/out. Its a deckbuilding challenge for sure!

    Anywho, hope you enjoy the next one. We’ll find some common ground some day, im sure! 🙂

    Stu T

  3. t says:

    1. Which GP/SCG Legacy Top 8 decks run Mana Leak? Not GPT, not some 10 people qualifier events, look at 2013 even 2012, None. Legacy offers Spell Pierce/Swan Song/Fluster Storm, you chose Mana Leak. That’s how obsolete you are.

    2. You argue Jitte is more versatile if opponent’s not playing TNN. By the same token, I argue DRS is more versatile than Mox Diamond. Think about the number of decks DRS can go into, think about the number of decks run Mox Diamond: Loam decks, Pox deck, and that’s it. Funny how you like to use versatility for your Jitte argument, but “Forget” to mention how narrow Mox Diamond is. By your logic, you want T1/T2 bomb via acceleration, fine, Painter/Show and Tell decks chose Spirit Guide over Mox Diamond. Good job for you to bring up an inferior card choice, you and your obsolete knowledge.

    3. Jitte does not race against opponent’s True-Name. Have you ever been to a sanctioned Legacy tournament more than 20 people? Ask any Death and Taxes players if their Jitte actually allowed them to defeat opponent’s TNN equipped with opponent’s Jitte. Better yet, ask any Death and Taxes players if they’re not frustrated enough from TNN to sell their decks yet.

    Seriously, you should listen to other Legacy podcasts and do some homework before you embarrass yourself, again.

  4. Yooo! Im beginning to wonder what ‘t’ stands for XD. Just a quick reply to some of the points you bring up :).

    1. True, manaleak isn’t hugely represented. In the fairly narrow context I describe, it seems fine :). Its competition isn’t spell pierce or swan song or flusterstorm, but rather counterspell, which itself rarely sees play out of extremely hard control shells.

    2. Deathrite shaman is indeed much more versatile than mox diamond. I wouldn’t play mox diamond outside of the decks you say (plus stax and maybe Junk). Even if it would give you T1 land, DRS, mox T2 land, Jace in BUG control (BOOM!!! – btw, this is a joke :D). Painters and show and tell tend not to play enough land to support mox diamond, as they need to streamline their decks towards hitting more off cantrips, etc etc. I would still play mox in Junk, which is better able to support it, with its already mana-heavy deck. Depends on how much you like loam I guess. AND I LIKE IT A LOT (as Stu P would tell you) XD.

    3. Yes, I have been to some large legacy events. I did ok at them :D. Its clear that TNN makes Death and Taxes life a bit more difficult, but its far from insurmountable. Presumably DnT would play a fairly heavy stoneforge package, which would include both SoFI and Jitte, and so its not so bad. They also have a mana denial plan that can hold off a True-Name from resolving until it is not so relevant. If they can get a Jitte onto a TNN, then its obviously pretty dire, but a serra avenger/flickerwisp/mindcensor with a Jitte can easily race a TNN by itself, not to mention some great board options from white in terms of artefact removal (its still really the equipment that kills you, rather than the bolt a turn).

    4. I like bullet points, almost as much as I like loam.

    Stu T 🙂

  5. A. N. Nimous says:

    Internet troll…. Internet troll…

    Lalalaaaaa

    Internet troll!

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